Hi,
I'm new and i'm in the process of upgrading my gears.
I look for a new receiver and a dvd player. There are several reviews about Denon AVR-3805. Also, i heard that going with separate am and pream is better. Since i'm new ..i don't know how different in term of sound quality between Denon 3805 and Outlaw 950/7100. Currently, i have axiom speakers.

By the way, which dvd player do you suggest? I'm looking for a good player , but not exceed $400 since i have only 1,600 left for either Denon 3805 or Outlaw 950/7100.

Please help ....

Thanks.

dvd-910 by denon if you dont want sacd or dvd-a. 300 retail. denon makes good stuff, but a decent processor (preamp) and seperate amp will beat most receivers hands down. the 950 compared with the 3805 is not apples to apples because the 3805 is brand new and the 950 is a bid older. they have some different sound formats like PLIIx on the 3805. denon has some good features (video upconversion, etc.) that the 950 doesnt have, but the 950 and amp should have a better sound. u can always use the 3805 as a processor and put an amp to it on its preouts... i couldnt make myself buy a product that i knew was soon going to be replaced and is already a step behind technologically. so that probably didnt help you much, but its a dilema for many. i myself would wait for 2nd generation 950 rather than buy it now.

Thanks for replying.
What's the difference between PLIIx to other modes?. Since I spend most time for listening music more than watching movie ( 80/20), I'm concern about sound quality (2 channel stereo?). I also only use 5.1 set up for movie, even though that 7100 is for 7.1
As you mention that new generation of 950, do you have any idea when a new model is coming out? Currently, I have an old Sony receiver (it's horrible...) and i need to replace it.

thanks.

Pro Logic IIx is a 7.1 extension to Pro Logic II (similar to but somewhat more advanced than the 950's Cirrus Extra Surround processing), and it is useless in a 5.1 system. The benefits to a 950/7100 combo are sound as well as flexibility/ upgradability -- as surround processor technology continues to evolve (which it has been doing at a frantic pace for the last several years), you will have the option of upgrading your pre/pro but keeping the amp. As for the age difference between 950 and 3805, I see it as less of an issue. In a 5.1 system, you will want Dolby Digital, DTS, and Pro Logic II -- all of which the 950 has. If you upgrade to 7.1, the 950 still includes Dolby EX, DTS ES, and Cirrus Extra Surround to generate a surround back signal for Pro Logic II, Dolby, and DTS sources. I would tend to recommend not waiting for an upgrade to the 950; there has been no official word about any successor to the 950, and I don't expect to see one until late next year at the earliest. You could buy a 950/7100 now, enjoy it for two years, and sell the for a significant percent of what you paid for it in two years if you wanted to upgrade to a successor.

As for DVD, what I've heard suggests that curegeorg's recommendation of the Denon 910 is a pretty good one. If you wanted DVD-Audio and SACD, there's a Pioneer for under $200 that probably wouldn't be as good a video performer. There's a player due out and day now from Yamaha (the DVD-S1500) with a list price of $400 that has DVD-Audio and SACD support and may be a reasonable match to the Denon on video, but I haven't found any in stores yet.

By the way, I'm running both Paradigm Reference and Axiom speakers with my 950/750 and really enjoy the combination.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Thanks, Gonk.
How about dvd-1200? i see this one (refurbished) on ecost.com . Since i spend most the time for listening music and not much for hometheater, I prefer player that offer best sound...and good picture quality too. My current Sony DVP-NS755V is working fine for movie, but not good sound when i listen to my CD. Any other DVD brand do you suggest?
Denon 3805 is attractive too, but its price is already 1,200. So what is the advantage of going separate to a a/v receiver , especiall good one like 3805? If sound quality is some sort of night and day...i'd prefer with separate route...

Thanks again.

I haven't seen a 1200 in action. From the Secrets shootout , the 2300 is based on the very good Panasonic RP82. The 1200 is from a similar development time and may share that same foundation, which would be a definite plus.

Aside from the potential for superior sound, separates can allow more flexibility in upgrading -- good amps can remain in your system for many, many years, but the onward pace of technology may make the processor obsolete. Separates allow you to only replace the part that's needs changing.

Gotta run to the hardware store for paint, but if I think of anything else (such as other players to consider) I'll come back through and post it.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

the 1200 is very similar to the 910, but adds sacd/dvd-a support. there is no word to when the 950 will be replaced, but i think they are better buys when you consider you will need an amp to go with it. then you will have to sell the 950 and not be able to get much for it.

I'm not ready to quit recommending the 950 to someone interested in separates. It is still an excellent product, and a very good value.



It costs $800 today (less if you get it in along with an Outlaw amp). What will it go for used in a couple years? Judging by the 1050, it will be a significant percent of the original price. Poke around Audiogon and eBay -- the 1050's that show up there are going for as much as $400, for a receiver that was $499 new when it was discontinued late last year and first started shipping in the winter or spring of 2000. I expect that the 950 will hold its value well for years to come.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

there is no doubt that it is a good product. i just dont think its great anymore. there are some features that one would like to have and are available at good prices these days that the 950 lacks. alas by the time outlaw comes out with a new one i will already have something new and will have to contemplate the upgrade again.

While there are other threads that deal with, or have touched on the subject of a successor to the 950 / features one would like to see, after owning mine for a year now, personally I don't see any in any product even close to the 950's price point that would entice me to switch. In fact I don't see one at any price point right now. I suspect that it will be a couple of years before I do - mainly because of the ever increasing confusion being created in the marketplace around a variety of "standards" for transmitting (or not) digital video and audio data.

Until there is a universally accepted standard for doing so, I will have no need for a new box to be the quarterback of my system - as is being done so well by the 950 right now.

Jeff Mackwood