I am a happy 1050 owner and would like to upgrade my surge protector to keep my equipment safe. Has anyone used a line conditioner or other protector\ac filter that they would recommend?

I use Panamax 5100 and I like it. No more buzzing from the speakers due to dirty power. Its identical to Monster brand but costs less. Click on “search” above and type Panamax.

thanks, that looks like a nice unit.

I also use the Panamax 5100 and am quite happy with it. You might also want to look at Brickwall .

I use the Monster Power HTS 2500. No problems with it. I think I paid 200 bucks for it new.

monster here, too. besides having 10 power outlets it's got cable and phone as well. plus, if i recall, anything that's plugged into it is covered up to something like $100k if you fill out all the cards and forms.

Brickwall units, various models.

Used Panamax models until I read about MOV's.

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Play it LoUd!!

I'm considering the VansEvers power conditioner. Anyone have experience with this custom built piece?

Jay

Spoon,..
What has been you experience with the Brick Wall units? I'm on the edge with this stuff, and love hearing real experiences. Any feedback good or bad? I have a BPT transformer I don't want to choke, as well as anything beyond it including a 7100 or 770, haven't made up my mind quite yet.
Thanks,...GRCRY,...>>>--->

I just put a Brick Wall 15 amp, 8 outlet surge protector into my 950 based 5.1 system. First of all, it immediately removed the buzzing and hum that had been driving me nutz. Secondly, (and I'm not kidding,) I can hear musical detail I never heard before on my favorite sacd's and dvd-a's. Read their website. Their product is different in that it is not MOV based. IMHO, this was a wonderful, great musical improvement. BTW, as an middle-aged audiophile I never heard the difference with other "upgrades." Anyone else own a VPI magic brick? How 'bout super expensive interconnects? The Brick Wall works.

Jay

JMS,...
Great to hear the Brick Wall made an improvement for you. The whole AC/Surge issue is quite a relevant thing. Not everybody has the same needs, and consiquently, get different results.
I'm interested in the Brick Wall, Zero Surge, units, but have been trying to get a straight answer as to wheather they limit current at all. I have only had one person say a definate no, they don't. The rep from Zero Surge said, They only limit current as much as the breaker in your panel. I think thats a no, and the guy was only being a little too techinical. In other words, anything in the path, has some sort of resistance, however slight it may be.
Has anybody done a check themselves on this. I don't recall where I saw it, but on another thread somewhere, there was discusion about current draw and large amps. One poster had quite a large system. He did a check with an ammeter, running different items, and then at different levels, all the way to the point, he could say,...It was painfully loud, with al the gear running, and the current draw was surprisingly reasonable. Not an overwelming figure at all. It sure put my mind at ease. I'm going to do the same thing with my system, as I just ordered a 770, and will be using all 7 channels sometimes at a pretty house shaking level,...

Not to steel the thread, but does anybody else have any interesting AC info, or experiences. There is so much grey area with this subject, it's interesting to hear real, experiences.
GRCRY,...>>>--->

Power line filters will limit current delivery capability to a certain extent because of the series inductor in series with the AC circuit. Power line surge protectors will not limit current in any way because the surge protection element (usually a metal oxide varistor) is in parallel with the AC circuit rather than in series with it.

The overriding concern is the current rating on the unit you are looking at. It should be at least capable of passing 15 amps which is the capacity of the normal circuit breakers in your house.

In general, I avoid using power line filters with power amplifiers that have significant power requirements (basically any multi-channel home theater amplifier) - using only surge protectors. In low level equipment like preamps, DVD players, etc, a combination power line filter and surge protector is the best way to go because these components are most likely to pick up RFI/EMI interferrence which could degrade their sound.

soundhound,..
Any insight to the series mode units, like the Brick Wall?
Thanks GRCRY,...>>>--->

I am not familiar with these units. Generally, what I said in my original post stands - if there is any passive circuitry in series with the AC line, there will be some loss. This is unavoidable. The loss might be insignificant in a particular application, but there is a loss nontheless. The current rating of the filter will be the telling specification. If it is rated to deliver 15 amps, then that is what it will pass without problems.

GRCRYSTYK,

If you have one of the BPTs, then a 15A brickwall with the single duplex would do nicely. If you have the BPT 2, 2.5 or 3.5, then look at the 20A brickwall. Do I hear a difference with mine? No. Do I feel comfortable with a good surge protector? Absolutely.

My brickwall is plugged into a dedicated circuit and my BPT1 is plugged into the brickwall. All my components, except for my power amps, are plugged into the BPT. The power amps are plugged into the same dedicated 20A circuit.

When I get out of my lazy phase, I'm putting another 20A circuit in and I'll be using a brickwall 20A unit followed by another balanced power transformer. The transformer is a plitron transformer that was offered through the Secrets of Home Theater website. You have to do the wiring yourself. This will be for my Outlaw 755, 2 M200s and 2 subwoofers.

Overkill? probably. It's really not a quest for the holy grail of power. I just like the Do-It-Yourself and this can't hurt.

soundhound,..
Your thoughts are exactly what I have been able to filter out of everything listed, posted, and in one way or another comunicated over the years. I supose, unless a person was to open up any given unit, and be able to understand everything they were looking at, would they be able to be completely sure of what effects that peice would have on other gear down stream. Your techinical experience,and willingness to share, is one of the great things about these forums. Thanks for your help.
Dollarbill,...
I have the BP 2.5, and I have been looking to get the 20 amp version of either the Brick Wall, or the Zero Surge. As I recall, for some reason, I don't think Brick Wall listed the single 20 amp unit, but Zero Surge does.
I had the page saved as a favorite for the Secrets transformer you mentioned, untill my hard drive crashed a couple weeks ago. I thought about that myself, but missed out on the bulk order, and ran across a pretty good deal on the BPT. If I knew exactly where, and what to purchase. I don't think the construction of the unit would be very difficult at all,...I had another page saved as well, that outlined what was needed for a DIY transformer. I have forgot the last name, but the guys first name is John. He has quite a few iteresting reads on things related to audio, and electronics.

The Brickwall units do not restrict current. I bought them for 2 reasons, they don't use MOV's, and the do not restrict any current.

They are also the ONLY products out there that passed a certain test, one that didnt need to be done, but they proved they could handle it.

Go to the following link and read it..

http://brickwall.com/nofail.htm

They simply will Not fail, thats peace of mind my friends.

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Play it LoUd!!

I don't remember where I got mine but the following site has the 20A, single duplex unit which should be all you need for the BPT 2.5.

http://www.surgeprotect.com/brickwall.html?source=google-adwords

Thanks Dollarbill,...
I saved the link to read later. It's quite long. I will check it out,....I had also sent BrickWall a question about the 20 amp single. They sent me a link also. Still not sure why they don't list it on the site,....
>>>--->

Brickwall offers THREE versions that have 2 receptacles for Point of Use.

I'll try to describe them as good as possible..

There are TWO 15amp versions. One is the PW2R15. This is a 15amp version with 15amp guts. The other 15amp version is called the PW2RAUD. It too uses a 15A plug at the end, but has 20A guts to insure it handles bigger loads easier. Those are the models I have, PW2RAUD.

Then there is the the 20A model, obviously has the 20A plug, and only accepts 20A connections. This one is called the PW2R20. This one is excellent as well.

All prices and specs can be found here....

https://trorderonline.thomasregister.com...=yes&origin=olc


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Play it LoUd!!

>>>Series surge reactor current limiter.....<<<

This is quoted from the product info on the web page, and if it is what it seems to be, it is not what you want to feed a power amp with, marketing notwithstanding.

In an application where relatively unrestricted peak currents are needed as in a power amplifier, you don't want anything except a circuit breaker in series with the AC line. House circuit breakers can pass peak currents above their current rating for a short period of time before the heat generated by the current causes the breaker to trip.

With low level devices which do not consume high currents, this limitation does not really matter.

Hound, what product does that pertain too, and where did you get that from?

Oh I see it now. I believe thats just to insure that too much current doesnt get to the equipment. It also goes on to say.....

"This unit is specifically designed to handle high current devices such as large amplifiers and subwoofers as well as other "power hungry" devices one might have in their audio/video systems. With a massive reactor that will not be stressed or constrict, this unit is overkill for most high current applications."

I understand what you said about the unrestricted peak currents, but I find the Brickwall adds to my system, instead of taking away.

My Cinenova Grande` 5 pulls a ton from the circuit, as does my Bryston. I've tried it with and without the Brickwalls in the mix. When the brickwall was added, the sound became more natural sounding. I tried the same material at reference level, and obviously you'd need a meter to test the current limitations, but theres no way I'm taking the Brickwalls out of the mix.




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Play it LoUd!!

Having nothing in series with the AC line is the only way to have current capability only restricted by the house circuit brakers, wiring, and the capacity of the power pole step down transformer.

Anything else will restrict current to some degree - there is no possible way it can be otherwise. Energy cannot be created from nothing, only lost.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited March 09, 2004).]

A sufficeintlly sized isolation type transformer (inductor) will act like a air pressure tank. Transient draws of current will be satisfied, and, the advantage of not dropping voltage as violently on the primary side (where your other equiptment is) when your amp draws peak current. If you have thin wire from the fuse box, poor connections in your outlets, and resistive breakers, a large isolation type tranformer will give you huge gains in stability of the voltage in the primaries and secondaries (before and after the unit). However, if the transformer used is too small, it will limit the peak current the amp can draw, making performance worse than no isolation at (except in the case of REALLY bad house wiring). USE a MOV at the primary, no possible loss of current and only microvolt drop, except when voltage spikes beyond safe range specified (150 vac)
Bottom line, I use RF noise suppression, and servo driven variable transformer on the low level devices, and isolation with MOV on amps. Safe and happy...

Yes, but the inductor would have to be impractically huge to satisfy any sustained current demands in the real world. Richard Grey's "power station" uses this technique, but the current it stores is miniscule compared to what a power amp needs to meet the demands of heavy and sustained bass. The storage time for an inductor is exceedingly short compared to the length of time a power amplifier needs peak current to replenish it's storage capacitors. A CD like my organ demo with 16Hz bass that lasts for seconds at a stretch would suck the power from such an inductor in milliseconds.

Ferro resonant power transformers are another method to regulate AC voltage, but these have the disadvantage of very high distortion of the AC waveform and high acoustic noise. Unnecessary distortion on the AC line is something that is best avoided at all costs since the distortion harmonics can creep into the audio circuits of associated equipment.

The best insurance is to simply buy a power amplifier that uses very large storage/filter capacitors and a power transformer that has the current cabability to keep them charged. DC is easy to store with capacitors and batteries - AC is next to impossible to store in any practical quantity.

Dedicated 20 amp outlets with good house wiring is a must for high current demands.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited March 13, 2004).]

The loads on my Cinenova and Bryston, are not as great as normal, because in every location, all 7 speakers have built in powered subs(DefTech), and running on Large. Unless something has changed, then this alone will put great relief on the current draw the amp would normally pull.

I know one thing, theres no way I am removing the Brickwall units from my system.

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Play it LoUd!!