One more question:

If the LFE on the 1050 is switched off where does the .1 information get routed?

For instance if I have 2 large speakers on L&R with small speakers elsewhere and no LFE, does the LFE data just dribble out onto the floor or will the 1050 be smart enough to route it the fronts?

Charlie

I glanced at the manual and couldn't tell for sure (there's a paragraph on sub/sats that mentions disabling the sub, but it doesn't speak specifically of what happens to the .1 channel in that case). Unless Pat knows (1050 beta tester and all...) or someone else has any definite info, you could probably get a quick and expert answer with an e-mail to Outlaw.

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Gonk

I also wonder, if you've got full range speakers on the front, and smalls in the rear, and no sub, will it crossover the rears into the fronts? Or is the crossover disabled with no sub? Or are the speakers crossed over and the result thrown away?

If your mains are set to large and there's no sub, the mains should receive any information from below the crossover point from any speaker set to small. That's the way I understand it, at least.

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Gonk

Good Question Charlie
I have a pair of large front speakers that actually go a bit below the sub I have. To test out how they sound with out the sub I changed the setting suggested to me by Outlaw's support. Cross-over to 60 then 80, no sub. Frankly I was disappointed with the lack of bass. I know my speakers can handle it, but there was not the good bottom I get when the sub is on. I am wondering if there is something amiss with my 1050.
I welcome any suggestions about the settings.
In the mean time I will keep the sub on and set to the setting given me by Outlaw.


[This message has been edited by libirm (edited February 08, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by libirm (edited February 08, 2002).]

Charlie,

One way to find out where the .1 goes is to use Avia or VE's test tones (or even any disc that has that THX 'optimization' test tone, I own 4 or 5, I think) with your speaker set-up. There is a discrete .1 signal with no other signal, so if you hear it, then it is re-routed. If you hear the main channels hiss, then a few seconds of silence, I'd suspect the .1 is indeed on the floor under your couch. . .

S.

I ran the Sound and Vision subwoofer level test while switching the 1050 LFE off and on. The .1 does indeed seem to get routed to any 'large' speakers if LFE is off.

Too bad I didn't know that while I was designing the system. It's tough to write a really good manual - the folks writing the manual are usually to familiar with the product to really ask all the questions.

I wonder if any receivers/processors out there have the ability to mix some LFE back into the 6 directional channels. Kinda doubt it.

Oh well - It still sounds fine.

Charlie

I did a bit more checking and the 1050 isn't QUITE that smart. Here is the scenario:

Front = small
center = small
Surround = large
LFE = off

In this case the system has no LFE output and the bass is pretty much gone. I suspect any bass that was sent to left, right or LFE is never sent to RS,CS,C or LS.

In short the 'bass management' seems to be a matter of shuffling low pass signal between front and LFE. Pretty weak. I have to admit I'm a bit dissapointed.

The 'Bass Managment' section in the manual is a bit misleading in that it strongly implies any speakers marked 'large' get bass routed to them. The actual behavior is a reasonable compromise but should be stated explicitly in the user manual. I downloaded and read the manual before my purchase, and this would have given me pause.

It's STILL a steal at $550 and, well, it still sounds fine. ;-)

Charlie

Most people who have full-range surronds will also have full-range fronts. I think turning off the sub simply routes all bass to the mains, since that's where most people would put their full-range speakers. Marking them as small is probably what gets the bass thrown away.

This has been an interesting thread that has prompted me to do some experimenting. I thought I understood the bass management but now I'm not sure; I think this is another area where the 1050 manual is a little thin on its explanation.

I have no subwoofer. My mains are bookshelves w/ passive radiators which are supposed to be capable to 35 Hz. Using the "Gladiator" battle scene for test material, I played with the large vs. small settings as well as the crossover point.

Setting the speakers to "large" or "small" seemed to make no difference, nor did changing the crossover point. The 1050 manual implies, but does not explicitly state, that the crossover setting is only active when there is a sub connected to the system.

Am I missing something? Maybe the "Gladiator" track doesn't have enough LFE to make an audible difference with my system.

Interesting! I was thinking of getting the Outlaw. I currently have a JVC. Like you also I experimented with my on board crossover (can be set 80 or 100hz). When set the speakers to large and no sub and then to small (with no sub, had sub activated on the reciever but turned the actual sub off) there appeared to be no difference. I chalked this up to being a JVC; low quality. This makes me wonder if the crossovers in the recievers actually work! How about it, you Outlaw owners. What is the story? Do the internal crossovers of the reciever actually do something? If so how can you test it?

OK! Is there anyone that can answer the above question? It would be nice to know if someone actually verified that the crossover on the Outlaw actually does work? Possibly by using a SPL meter? Set the crossovers to the various settings and verify if the frequencies do roll off above the set frequency on the sub or vice versa (roll off below on the mains).
Hopefully can check this for me. I am seriously considering the Outlaw 1050. I'm a little worried about the power rating also.

MCH -

I won't be able to do any testing with the crossovers on my 1050 for a couple days (work has gotten sort of hectic), but I can vouch for the amp section being very potent. You might also fire off a quick e-mail to Outlaw asking for the in-depth word on how the bass management really works -- they're really good about responding to stuff like that.

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Gonk

I can verify that at least SOMETHING happens... you can definitely hear the difference with bass-heavy CDs and various crossover points. Setting the crossover to higher than my sub's built-in 120 Hz crossover also seems to leave a notch of sorts.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Try using a calibration DVD like AVIA that has a low frequency sweep for subwoofer testing.