I am considering switching to a Pioneer 45A universal player. In reading up on that unit and similiar units, one problem kept cropping up in discussions. I found a number of people claimed that when listening to a SACD or DVD-A disc through the analog outputs in 5.1 Bass was very low compared to listening to the same disc in DTS, DD or TWO Channel Stero.

My questions are,

Is the low LFE really that big of a problem or is it blown out of propotion?

If it is a big problem will I be able to use my ICBM to correct the low bass?

Why should I switch to a universal player like the 45A if I am going to lose a substanial amount of Bass information?

Truth is I am not looking forward to playing with the ICBM everytime I switch from SACD or DVD-A to DTS, DD or Stero.

Any insight into this problem would be greatly appeciated by this SACD/DVD-A novice.

I have the Pioneer 47Ai and I have no problem with bass output. On DVDA & SACD I have the BM in the 47Ai set up with all speakers large with sub. On the 950 I have BM set up for all speakers small with sub and use the 80hz analog crossover for the high rez stuff. One thing you should be aware of is that the Pioneer players bass test tones are faulty.

Depends who you ask.

I have the 45A, and have tested extensively with several different test discs.

Overall, the sub channel out on my player is low by about 10 dB relative to the other channels. I have gone so far as to measure the output directly with a volt meter...its low. This applies to all media that use the sub channel.

But, it not missing, just low. You need to apply some gain to the sub channel to get it equal to the mains. My receiver allows me to do this (I have separate channel levels for the 5.1 input).

That worked great.I now have a ICBM, but that was to get the crossover frequency I required.

If you have an ICBM, it can boost the sub channel by about 9 dB which would be pretty close to right where you need it to be.

FWIW, this is common to several uni-players (apparently not the 47Ai, although I have read posts that say it too has a low output).

Another data point.....the levels in the player between DVD-A/SACD and DD/DTS are even, so once you get the channel level up to snuff, there should be no issue playing DD,DTS, SACD, or DVD-A in that player. The sub level should be unchanged.

BGL

[This message has been edited by BrianL (edited August 15, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by BrianL (edited August 15, 2003).]

Well I broke down and bought the 45A a week or so back. Here is what I am finding unusual. I should note I am not that familiar with all the nuances of Bass Management, at least not yet. Who am I kidding, I will be asking questions for quite some time.

When using the 5.1 analog inputs instead of finding the bass lacking I found in some instances it was overpowering. No it is not boomy, just louder in comparision to the other frequencies if that makes sense, especially bass quitar. I have moved the subs to various locations, adjusted the sound using the controls on the ICBM, Phase controls on the two subwoofers(Mirage OM200 and Yamaha YST SW80), and volume control on the Yamaha, the Mirage is hooked in direct as suggested by Mirage and only the variable phase control works in that confriguation. But then again I am starting to think the problem might not originate in the subs but in the front speakers. The Front speakers are Mirage OM9 and the Center is a OM-C2.

The room the system is in roughly 14 X 23 with an open floor plan. The room is attached to the Kitchen (8X15) and Dining (10X12)room with only a small corner wall creating any type of seperation between the three rooms. In other words the sound has plenty of places to go. The ceiling are nine feet high with areas that go higher up to eleven feet(Tray Ceilings). The floors of all three rooms are ceramic tile with just a few area rugs. There is also a lot of glass, triple sliders, a large Aquarium window and two eight foot french doors. The great room is full of overstuffed furniture. I think I covered it all. Now finally to the questions.

Is it possible that all the above could be causing a peak at a certain frequency, well I guess of course it is possible, but if it is how do I determine what is causing the peaks if there are peaks and what might present a solution.

Long winded I know but any suggestions would be appreaciated. I do have a sound meter and AVIA and Video Essentials DVD's if that will help.

Peace, LTK

As an addendum: I change the connection to the OM200 from the direct input(only control that works is variable phase control) to the input that allows control over the level, crossover and phase control. Adjusting the level control on the subwoofer yeilded good results. What I don't understand is why the level of the sub is so high in the direct input, unless they expect you to control the level of the sub at the pre/pro or dvd player. Still not completly satisfied but starting to get there.

[This message has been edited by Luvthekeys (edited August 18, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Luvthekeys (edited August 18, 2003).]