First review of Model 975

All,
Early today, Home Theater Review uploaded the first full review of the Model 975. For many, this review will answer a lot of questions including the most importantb one: How does it sound?

You can find the review at the following URL:

http://hometheaterreview.com/outlaw-audio-model-975-71-av-surround-sound-processor-reviewed

Best Regards,

Peter

1. I'm glad to see that Outlaw scored such a positive review - so soon!

2. The reviewer, as far as I can tell (since I know so little about it) does a very good job of going through the 975's features and omissions in a way that is valuable to potential buyers. I share his opinions on the things he addresses.

3. However I tune out any reviewer who, when talking about simple 2 channel audio performance, feels compelled to lace the review with a plethora of "voodoo" statements about this and that quality of the sound (and in comparison to this and that other unit.) Look, either the unit sounds great because it simply reproduces the signal accurately without adding any audible noise and or distortion, or it doesn't. "Bass, especially acoustic bass, was plucky, punchy and fun, with terrific natural reverberation and body." Gimme a break. It's one of a half dozen or so completely useless and meaningless statements that pepper the review. As a result I'd personally disregard anything the reviewer said about the unit's sound quality and simply assume that the 975 sounds great (which is the least that I would expect anyhow.) And yes, that's just my opinion.

It was a nice review. However based on the statement:

"I will make sure NOBODY gets this before we do.
Peter and Scott are my buddies and our Forum has spoken!!!! "

I might suspect a little bias. Who deosn't want to help their buds out?

I do very much look forward to receiving mine though...

I too am a little "weirded out" by anyone that would seriously suggest a $30k pre-pro has a distinctive "sound" -- come on people these things are electronic devices not some had crafted musical instrument with alchemists lacquers...

It is a good review although I agree with Jeff above in regards to the descriptions of the sound. I would expect a further review to include measured parameters vice flowery adjectives directed at making the review overly emotional. I agree also with the reviewers assessment of the 975s feature set although I don't see a need for extra HDMI inputs. Feature creep has bloated the cost of most processors and I am glad to see one that allows the end user the choice of what bells and whistles to include as add ons. Considering the current capabilities of Bluray players, the need for upscaling, decoding and streaming features in a processor is redundant and not cost effective. The 975 is a processor for those that may not have or want a bluray player but do want to watch TV or listen to music in high definition.

EEman


You kind of have to know Jerry to understand that comment. As for Andrew, I have never met him or spoken to him over the phone. Like anything else those opinions are his. Every customer (such as you) has to draw his or her conclusions. (That is why we have the 30 day trial period).

That said, we are, of course, very pleased with the review. While his observations on performance are good for us ,what makes us really happy is his view of processors. He asks some very tough questions that we all face as manufacturers We took a stand with the Model 975 that in many cases it will fit the needs of many of our customers. Obviously each person has to decide if the 975 will fit his or her specific needs. As we all know, there are other products just loaded with features for those that feel that they really need or want them.

On a personal level the 975 will replace my own 990. It's all I need (or want) at this time. But then that is me.

YMMV

Peter

I just want to clarify / reiterate that I respect the reviews posted by HTR -- Andrew does a pretty good job of "calling it like he sees it" and tends to be a very "value oriented" guy -- if something delivers good sound at a great price he'll clearly say so and similarly when something sounds just so-so at any price he'll not hold back.

As I repeatedly said during the long (and ultimately unfruitful) development phase of other Outlaw pre-pros the design decisions that the Outlaw team has made is one that is decidedly against the mainstream tendency to throw every last "frill" into a product regardless of whether those "features" actually work / sound good.

This is not about "helping out one's pals" so much as it is a confirmation that there are folks that legitimately DO NOT WANT to have some Vegas-strip looking piece of equipment that intimidates the bejeezus out of the rest of the family AND sounds like the generic junk from a big box store...

Permit me to clarify. I'm not saying there is a bias. I'm also not saying there isn't. If there is a bias I'm also not saying that it's intentional. I'm honest enough with myself to know that if it says Outlaw on the faceplace I'm predisposed to thinking it's going to be a great product, based on my previous experience.

But as an engineer, I'm always leery of drawing conclusions based on one data sample. I also want to know that the data is unbiased by whatever external factors may exist. I'm not knocking HTR, I'm just trying to stay conservative and understand what they're really saying. I believe a little skepticism at first is healthy. I know this probably sounds a little hypocritical given that I've already plopped down the credit card. I'm struggling with this early adopter thing-not my usual style.

Peter,
I don't expect my mileage to vary much from the benchmark.

Also, interesting insight on the review process: Not only Andrew's thoughts on product performance but also significant thoughts on market trend.

So when do the first 975s ship? I'm looking forward to hearing more users' opinions to go with this positive review.

From the review:

"Bass frequencies are slow-moving and fatter than their midrange or high-frequency counterparts"

Really?

O.K. I know what he was trying to say (i.e. a sub's low frequency phase can affect it's apparant acoustic distance, etc.), but it's a poor choice of words.

Early December is the best info we've received so far.

If the unit had a workable room correction system, I could overlook some of the other missing features (that are easily met with an HTPC).

I do like the simplicity and the choice and layout of the components given the budgetary footprint, but I just don't "get" the 975. There's a lot of competition out there in the $500-600 range so it's going to have to sound pretty darned good to appeal to folks that are gravitating towards competitor products with more features. Room correction would seem to be a "must have" in the processor space these days, but perhaps I'm just too demanding.

If I was primarily a 2-channel guy and feeding my music from an HTPC over HDMI, I might consider one.

Best,

Ritz2

When you say,"There's a lot of competition out there in the $500-600 range", exactly what competition are you referring to among NEW dedicated processors at this price level? Could you please be more specific as to what name brand of processorS (plural) you are referring to? I can't think of any off hand. Receivers? Yes, they are plentiful at this price level. But as far as processors, I believe this price of $549 is pretty much uncharted territory for a new dedicated processor.

UMC-200, but I think everyone knows that.

Yes, I am referring to the raft of AVRs available at that price range. Keta also mentioned the Emotiva UMC, though I wouldn't buy one of those either due to the reputation of its predecessor. Limiting your field to "dedicated processors" seems bit silly to me and pretty much ensures that you're stuck with niche manufacturers or VERY expensive units. I'll grant you that the 975 appears to be the price king for a dedicated processor (though it's missing some important features that you'd get on more expensive alternatives).

Best,

Speaking of niche, I am surprised it does not have a Phono input but does include component vid in/out. Considering the niche market the 975 would appeal to, I would think you would want just the reverse?

-Bob

It is pretty straight forward to use a dedicated phono amp for those owners who actually own some vinyl. A cheap phono amp is better as an addon so those customers who don't have vinyl don't have to pay for something they won't use.

I did not know that, thanks

Personally, and no offense to anyone of you out a here, I appreciate when someone actually attempts to quantify their experiences with a product however that may be. Did the reviewer use some confusing termonology, perhaps, but isn't the reason Outlaw even exists is to satisfy the A/V consumer, and by satisfy wouldn't that imply enjoyment of said product? Though some of you seem hell bent on strickly seeing the measued output from devices and their statistic results, my experiences with calibration and testing have always led me to tailor settings to my tastes regardless of "optimal" performance. The world isn't a box that everything fits into nice and neat and I applaud the reviewer at HTR for giving his opinion on what he experienced, and found the review of the 975 to be quite excellent thank you.

Ritz, if you "must have" room correction in your next pre/pro, that's not too demanding, it's just your desire. If you don't have to have it, then take a look at the audio chips in the 975 - do the other $500 - $600 pre/pro's have this level of audio circuitry?

What are the audio chips in the 975? I have never seen them posted for either the 975 or the 978. The 978 said Sabre but there are 5 different versions of the Sabre line. I know the OPPO BDP-95 and 105 use both of the Sabre32 Reference DACs (one for 7.1 and the other for stereo).

Maybe some kind soul will open one up and tell us what they are and then post some inside the box pictures.

A picture will not tell the tale. To see the DACs one would have to remove the HDMI board.

Scott could clear this up but I am sure at the price of the 975 they are sure to be rather pedestrian but more than up to the task.

The Home Theater Magazine review had this to say on the topic:

"The Model 975 utilizes 192-kilohertz/24-bit DACs for all channels with a 32-bit CS- 497024 Crystal processor."

I think this chip has been EOLed already so I was unable to get info on current pricing, but you can check out the datasheet at the cirrus website.

Best,

Nope. Part is available from distributors:

Minimum quantity: 750
Price: $41.62 ea
Lead Time: 146 days (Non-Cancelable/Non-Returnable)

The design docs also show the chip mated to a Cirrus Logic 24-bit, 192KHz DAC with an SNR of 102dB. Hmmm...