Power Conditioners

Unable to find a thread about this so I posted here. Some outlaws (and others) use "power conditioners" like, for example:

MONSTER HTS 2500MKII

Darn it. I hit the wrong key. Continuing: I understand that it's a good idea for protection. I understand the different ratings for overall load/draw. My confusion is in what they call STAGE 3 or STAGE 4. I surmise that perhaps this means that a stage 4 has more levels of filtering or protection. Y/N (?)

Considering a capacity of 1800 watts, which the outlaw 7 x 200 and 5 x 200 are max rated, I guess one would want something like the 3500 which has a higher rating. With the other stuff plugged in I guess you would want it.

I'd sure like to hear from someone with some info in this stuff. Thanks in advance
nfaguys----(the newbie)

1800W equates to a 15A circuit - that's all you can get from the circuit. Something larger isn't any use unless you are putting it on a 20A circuit.

I use a Panamax MAX5100 for my surge protection. As a bonus, it provides some EMI/RFI filtration. A lot of folks use Monster's units and are happy with them, but Monster's array of overpriced interconnects made me wary of their stuff and I found the 5100 for a little over $200.

I'm with gonk on Panamax, and as he says, be sure to distribute your power consumption on circuits, not outlets or power conditioners. Unless you've got unused 20 amp circuits, the 3500 and models like it are no better than others.

I have been using panamax to protect my equipment for over 10 years now. When my Max1000+ unit sacrificed itself (saved everything!) a few years back, Panamax bought out its lifetime warranty with as many new units as I wanted at cost . I discussed my setup with one of their reps and this is what worked:

#1: Use a relatively full-featured unit on one outlet (I use a Max 5300) for all of your source units and pre/pros. The better units usually have pass-thru 12v triggers; output your 12v from the pre/pro to turn it on, and use the Power Conditioner's 12v output to trigger power on unit #2.
#2: This is the unit (I use a Max 4310) that the main unit turns on; use this to run your amplifiers only, and it's best to have them on the "delay" outlets to avoid the thump. IMPORTANT - plug this unit in an outlet on a separate circuit to ensure proper power availability. If you can dedicate one circuit to your amp/s, you're ahead of most of us.

This has worked wonders for me, never so much as a hiccup.

It's also worth noting that my MAX5100 kept everything safe during a shaky power outage almost two years ago - a storm-induced outage that screwed up several stereo components (killed a VCR, messed up some boards in a Sony TV, blew a fuse in a Spectral pre-amp) at a co-worker's house.

Thanks fellas.
Appreciated.

Hey guys,

Maybe I should have investigated more thoroughly before buying, but I'm basically just using a big UPS with automatic line regulation to protect my home theater. I don't have any problems with gound loops or unwanted noise in the system, just grotesquely unreliable power.

We get brown outs ALL the time, especially during summer for some reason. They'd always cause the PC to reset and the home theater to pop and the TIVO to reset. A UPS fixed the PC so I figured a bigger one would do fine for the home theater. I've got everything but the TV running through it because it's a pretty big load, relatively speaking (and it's a good excuse to upgrade if it goes ).

Anyway, I was just wondering if I'm doing the right thing or if I should be getting something like the 5100. Since I've installed it, I haven't had any problems but I just want to make sure I'm not just tempting fate.

I read through the link gonk provided above, but I didn't see anything about protection from short duration undervoltage conditions.

Most of the UPS units that can handle large electrical loads do a good job of regulating power, which is the big reason for having such protection in the first place. The main advantage to the specialized units is the overvoltage protection offered not only over power lines, but coax cable and phone (and sometimes ethernet) as well. If your UPS has this, you're in pretty good shape. The feature UPS units generally don't have is outlets w/delayed turn on and off, which of course helps protect amps and speakers.

Panamax offers a separate unit for battery backup that can be combined with exisitng units such as the 5100 here .

APC (the big UPS company) has also forayed into HT with a unit combining both battery backup and power conditioning here (for those of us with fussy front projection units that don't like quick shutdowns).

Sort of a PSA here, but considering the issues raised in this thread, I truly believe anyone with a paycheck or two invested in HT should make sure their gear is connected to a good UPS or Power Conditioner. Unchecked undervoltages, which won't trigger most power strips, can kill a power supply after only a year or two - sort of a silent killer in the HT world. HT gear is a terrible thing to waste.

To give an idea, I've never had a single component fail in all the time I've been protected, even 10+ years after the warranty runs out.

The best part is, good protection can be gotten for about $100 now from companies like Panamax and Monster Cable with their smaller models and capable "power-strip" style units.

Just $.02, for what it's worth.

Having had the dubious distinction of having had a Model 950 power pack get thoroughly "cooked" probably for the reasons mentioned by Sluggo above, I am very leery of companies offering surge protection/line conditioning units with go-zillion dollar equipment replacement guarantees.
To make a long story short and keep it to 2 cents worth, a company that might be worth taking a look at www.pricewheeler.com
They offer "medical grade" fault-tolerant protection/conditioning at reasonable cost.

If nothing else, they give a good presentation on how it all works plus their home page has a catchy headline:

"If P.T Barnham were alive today he'd be selling surge protection". UL-Technician


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Another company that occurred to me after I posted in this thread previously is BrickWall . They produce pretty economical surge protection that is pretty well regarded by some folks online. Another company used by many Outlaw owners is TrippLite.

I own and use a Brickwall unit and I buy into their theory of protection/filtering. My home theater sounds "black" and silent when nothing is going through it. I'm happy and planning on buying a separate unit for the lfm-1.

Jay

Dennis - sorry to hear about your 950. R.I.P

The page in your link talks a lot about the differences between surge suppression in expensive and cheap products. I wholeheartedly agree - possibly the only difference in suppression is the warranty. It's the protection (by shutting itself down) from undervoltages that turns a power strip into a line conditioner (not to mention the additional protection and features typical to them).

Their point is a little muddied, though - Panamax sells a unit with more features for less than the 8 outlet Brick Wall unit they're pushing.

Thank you for your condolences Sluggo, however we did reccover from our period of mourning relatively quickly thanks to a QUICK replacement unit sent by Outlaw.

i have made a promise to myself to do my best not let this re-occur with the 990 which hopefully will be in the rack in the next few weeks.

The things impressed me about the Price-Wheeler(Brickwall) company was the fact the company was created with a mission statement that had absolutely nothing to do with protecting audio components. I have a tendency to believe them regarding entry into the "audiophile" market was more or less by mistake when people started using the "original ugly" units for the purposes that you and I require.

I took a look at the TrippLite units that you had mentioned Gonk, and seemed to me at the time, that they were a bit more expensive (if my memory serves me correctly, which sometimes works good and sometimes not so good).

Oh yea, at the time my first 950 unit went down, I was running my system on two separate 15A circuits using two Woods suppressors with 3450 joule rating on both circuits.
I am happy to report that both of those units have long since been retired to the "round file" but not until after having learned "the hard way".

Dennis - Where in Frisco are you? These days I'm on site at a customer on Legacy south of 121 (think salty snacks).

Been to the imploding Ultimate electronics yet? I'm going to miss those sweet audition rooms...

i think most power conditioners are overrated. you could get the same performance from a surge strip and some filters (if you even need the filters). the ones that regulate the power (though very expensive) have some benefit (no power lags). there are a lot of better things you can spend $200 on. just get something with a warranty for connected gear and anything at all is better than nothing.

I agree with the guys on the backup issue it is important to have the time necessary to shut down your gear properly. The newer technologies like LCD, HDILA and DLP projection type televisions have very expensive lamps which could be damaged when suddenly shut down by a power outage. The temperature of the bulb can shorten the life expectancy when not properly cooled down. This goes for front projectors as well.

I have been embarrassingly owned by this issue...I have spent quite a bit of money since December and have "bought into" the need for spike protection but moreso the line conditioning...I think I have rather clean electricity but I have heard noises when some things run in the house (paper shredder, fridge) and I don't hear it through the components running through the Panamax MAX 5100...there are probably better units out there but I did make the $200+ "insurance" purchase twice...piece of mind...anyway...my .02
Bill

Hi Sluggo!

I'm just down the road from where you are working. Westin Resort&Hotel (Legacy & Town and Country Blvd.I'm actually on Town & Country.

Have'nt been over to Ultimate lately...what's up with them? Did you say self destruct mode?
Are they having any "fire" sales?

I guess we have the ability for local comparisons/auditions if the opportunity arises! Glad to know you!

Ultimate is closing all 10 of their D/FW stores due to "market saturation." Funny, but the market wasn't saturated until they opened 10 stores here....

They're selling everything in store at a discount, at least 20% at this point, might be worth your while, especially if you need any accessories (like a line conditioner!) or speakers. The HDTVs were looking slim over the weekend...

Do the Panamax products use MOVs?

If they do are there any concerns about it?

There have been discussions within this forum about MOVs being less than desireable.

Panamax does use MOV's, so (as with any MOV-based unit) there is a finite number of events it can filter before it gradually becomes ineffectual. I've had mine since early 2002, and I figure I'll replace it (possibly with a Brick Wall unit, which does not use MOV's) in the next year or so, or at least move the most valuable hardware to something else.

Any thoughts welcome on this one . Having an inductor ran in series could possibly choke large components such as amps and subs which require large amounts of power to recharge their caps . Any truth to this ? This is an argument made by Pnamax which I found in their manual for the 5300 . I believe the Brick Wall uses such an in line inductor coil . I am not so sure I can swallow this one from Panamax as their seems to be enough headroom for a large influx of power before the Brick Wall units respond . Could somone clear this up a bit ? Thanks .

I think the Series Mode technology companies like Brick Wall , SurgeX , and Adcom (there are probably others now) are the only ones worth considering.

you use the 5100 for your 750 and two m200s and i assume you have a powered sub...
the 5100 only has 2 high current outlets wich they say to use for amps.
do you use the two high power outlets for the front 200s and the 750 on one of the other 2 banks and maybe use another surge protector for the sub? just courious how you have the 5100 set up.

I have a simple power strip (no surge protection) plugged in to one high current outlet to feed the three amps. I've had the sub on a regular outlet for a long time, but come to think of it I may move it to the other high current and change it from auto-sense to always on.