I know the THX family of certifications is only a spec. but why does a unit as good as the 990 fall short? Does anyone know what part of the 990 specs. fell short of the standard? Would it have been good for marketing to tweak a spec or two to get the certification?

Kos:

It isn't at all a question of "meeting the spec" or not. The fact that the 990 doesn't have THX certification was most likely a business decision on the part of the Outlaws having more to do with the time and cost invovled of obtaining THX approval, rather than anything having to do with quality or specs. No one other than the THX licensees (which, by the way, is another cost!) really know what the magic specs are, but I'll bet that if the 990 WERE matched against them, it wouldn't have any problem passing anythign relevant.

The REAL question is if the 990 has the right combination of performance and features for the price, and whether or not you (or enough people out there) would be willing to pay extra for what would be invovled in having it be a THX certified product.

The processor used in the 990 (and P-965) supports the THX overlay. As PadBoy said it is a matter of cost.

I believe it's just a matter of meeting some (easily met, in this case) basic specifications and then forking over the license fee to the stormtroopers. There is a lot of absolute crap on the market that's pretty low-end sporting the THX logo.

You got that right, including Creative Labs soundcards. Of course Creative Labs had to buy 50% of THX to get the logo.

That's why there'e now different levels of THX certification (Select, Ultra, Ultra2, Ultra BFG9000). It's kind of like a college alumni donation: 'be a century club member for only $25, or a gold club member for $50!' Either way the alma mater gets a new handicap ramp.

The fact is, the THX certification only assures one thing: if you have a THX-certified theater (that's the room itself, folks), plus all of the necessary THX-certified equipment and cabling (placed in the appropriate THX-certified feng-shui location), then your setup will sound exactly like a THX-certified theater should sound.

And that's, like, good, right?

Outlaw has consistently elected not to pursue THX certification (Ultra/Ultra2 or Select). They are far from alone - Rotel, Adcom, Sherwood, Fosgate Audionics, NAD, and Emotiva all have very good processors in my pre/pro chart and do not pursue THX certification. Could any of them pass? Absolutely - I'd wager that with no more than a little extra software to take care of THX, any of them could.

sluggo,

Pease don't take this as some sort of personal "attack" on you. I've quoted your post only as a "springboard" for my own. We are, after all, entitled to our own opinions.


I felt that, in the glaring absence of any (real) "facts", I might attempt to provide some.

Please notice the date of the press release posted below. It has not yet been a year since the THX Certified Home Theatre Program "officially" launched. The Home THX Certification Program (product certification) launched in 1990. The Theatrical THX Sound System became commercially available in 1983. The first motion picture soundtrack mixed and mastered on a Lucasfilm THX Sound System-equiped dubbing stage, was Star Wars: Episode VI; Return Of The Jedi. Mann's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood California has the historical destinction of being the first commercially certified installation and in time for the premier of "Jedi".

Below the press release, one may find a listing of the various performance criteria measured/tested against the Home THX specification/standards. Though the specs themselves are proprietary, the lists are a good indicator of some of what is looked at in candidate products.

As a final point; the conception of the Home THX Sound System (pick your flavor) was not arrived at so "your setup will sound exactly like a THX-certified theater should sound". Rather, the dubbing stage is the environment which it is attempting to mimic.


Wayne


THX™ CERTIFIED HOME THEATRE PROGRAM LAUNCHES AT CEDIA 2004


Will Provide Designers and System Integrators with Specifications for a Complete THX Certified Home Theatre Environment
SAN RAFAEL, Calif., September 8, 2004 - THX Ltd., the leading provider of technologies, certification programs and quality assurance standards for the entertainment industry, today announced the launch of the THX Certified Home Theatre program for custom home theatre installations and new residential developments. The THX Certified Home Theatre program provides designers and system integrators with audio and visual specifications for the design of dedicated home theatre rooms. For the first time, THX will afford homeowners the luxury of having a state-of-the-art THX Certified home theatre environment, a level of excellence previously reserved for film industry professionals.

By leveraging the company’s more than 20 years of expertise in film post-production, commercial cinema and studio design, and consumer electronics, the THX Certified Home Theatre program provides an optimized setting for experiencing films and other multi-media content in the home. The program will serve as an extension of the THX Certified consumer electronics and professional mixing studio programs.

"Home theater rooms with the THX Certified Home Theatre plaque on the wall will deliver an exceptional level of audio and video performance," said Joseph Lias, president of THX Ltd. "Because the THX brand represents superior quality, we are confident that the THX Certified Home Theatre program will be embraced by the professional designer and integrator communities, as well as home theatre enthusiasts."

The THX Certified Home Theatre specifications will include strict guidelines for room layout and design, acoustics, lighting, background noise, and equipment positioning and installation. To roll out this new initiative, THX will be partnering with the nation’s leading system integrators and custom designers, as well as its manufacturing partners in the consumer electronics industry. The program promises to offer dealers and integrators a premium product, enabling them to improve market share and revenues in a highly competitive industry.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


THX rigorously tests all THX Certified Home Theater Products to guarantee performance quality and usability features for:

Pre-Amplifiers and Receivers
Power Amplifiers
Speakers
DVD Players


Pre-Amplifiers and Receivers:

THX Reference Setting for Volume Controls: A key element that THX requires for receivers and pre-amps is the reference setting for volume controls. When a system is calibrated according to the manufacturer’s instructions and a movie is played back at this marked reference setting, (usually zero on the volume control), the audio experience will be at the same volume level that the movie was originally mixed and played back in a theater. To achieve THX certification, components must play at this reference level without breaking, distorting, buzzing, rattling or any other distracting effects.

*Reference Output Voltage
*Voltage Gain
*Input Impedance
*Gain Control Range
*Gain Tracking of the Master Gain Control
*Overload Source Voltage
*D.C. Bias Current at the Input
*Maximum Output Voltage of Low-Level Outputs
*Output Source Impedance
*Polarity
*D.C. Offset at the Output
*Frequency Response Deviation
*Signal Time Delay
*Noise Output Voltage
*Input Level Indicator (Clipping Indicator)
*Video Path Switching
*Video Level
*Sync Level
*Bar Tilt
*Pulse/Bar Ration
*K-Factor (K-2T)
*Frequency Response Amplitude (0.5 to 4.2 MHz)
*Group delay (0.5 to 4.2 MHz)
*Chroma Gain
*Chroma Delay
*Differential Gain
*Differential Phase
*Noise
*Video Conversion
*Harmonic Distortion and Noise
*Difference-Frequency Distortion
*Dynamic Range
*Digital Data Sampling Rate Support
*Input Mode Control and User Interface Design
*Input Mode Switching
*Automatic Detection of Data Types
*Output Modes and Post Processing
*Equalization and Tone Controls
*Signal Headroom
*Bass Management
*Filter Characteristics
*LFE Channel Level Scaling
*Loudspeaker Position Time Synchronization
*Auto Calibration
*Auto Setup
*Output Levels
*Dialogue Normalization

Power Amplifiers:

*Reference Output Voltage
*Voltage Gain
*Output Current
*Output Source Impedance
*Overload Restoring Time
*Stability with Capacitive Load
*Harmonic Distortion and Noise
*Modulation Distortion
*Difference-Frequency Distortion
*Noise Output Voltage
*Phase Response
*D.C. Offset at the Output
*Hum
*Crosstalk
*Acoustic Noise Level
*Mechanical Noise
*Input Sensitivity
*Input Impedance
*Output Impedance
*Load Impedance Range
*Voltage Output Capability
*Current Output Capability
*Transient Output Capability
*Transient Overload Recovery Time
*Asymmetrical Clipping
*Frequency Response
*Phase Response
*Phase Margin
*Time
*Total Harmonic Distortion
*Intermodulation Distortions
*SMPTE IM Distortion
*IHF IM Distortion
*DIM 30 Distortion
*Noise
*Radiated Interference
*Conducted Interference
*Crosstalk

Speakers:

*Axial Frequency Response Analysis
*Directional Characteristics
*Sensitivity
*Impedance
*Harmonic Distortion
*Low Frequency Cut Off
*Phase Angle
*Stray Magnetic Flux
*Maximum Output Level
*Acoustic Noise Level
*Polarity

DVD Players:

*Video Level
*Sync Level
*Bar Tilt
*2T K Factor
*Pulse/Bar Ratio
*Sin x/x Response
*Sin x/x Group Delay
*Chroma Level
*Composite and Y/C Chroma Delay
*Chroma Differential Gain
*Chroma Differential Phase
*Burst Amplitude Differential
*Flesh Tone Phase Error
*Luminance Linearity
*AM Chroma Noise
*PM Chroma Noise
*Chroma Correlated Noise (IM)
*Chroma Burst Frequency Leakage in Y
*Chroma Burst Frequency
*H Sync Timing

About THX Ltd.
THX Ltd. provides technologies and services for optimizing the production and playback of entertainment content in the professional and consumer markets. The company’s certification programs and technologies deliver the ultimate entertainment experience, providing superior playback of movies, music and games, and improving the interoperability of entertainment products and applications. Today, thousands of commercial cinemas, post-production studios, home entertainment products, DVDs and games have been designed and certified by THX. Founded in 1983, THX is headquartered in San Rafael, Calif. Its Digital Works office, offering quality assurance, DVD mastering and post-production services, is based in Burbank. For more information, visit www.thx.com.

Wayne -seems my point may not have been clear to you. This quote from your post:

"The THX Certified Home Theatre specifications will include strict guidelines for room layout and design, acoustics, lighting, background noise, and equipment positioning and installation."

backs up my sarcasm quite well. Moreover, whether the end result sounds like a dubbing stage or the inside of a septic tank, it still sounds "like a THX-certified theater should sound." That's fact, not opinion.

Don't take this personally, Wayne, but the press release shows something very clearly: THX is a certification, not a standard, the difference being a fee to Mr. Skywalker. If you can quantitatively state the cost benefits of full THX home theater certification to the end user, fantastic; however, as has already been said in this thread, there are plenty of products out there that meet a high standard without a big logo on them.

Wayne's list gives a good idea of what is involved in the THX certification process. It also gives you a good idea of what is involved in designing a receiver or processor (or even an amp), and just how expensive it could be to have a third party like THX "check your work." The larger companies (like Pioneer or even Denon) can afford it because economy of scale works in their favor - a THX-certified product that they bring to market will sell so many units that the THX licensing fees get spread out a lot and have less impact on the price of that product. Companies that operate at a different sort of scale - ones that sell through specialty AV dealers (Rotel, Sherwood, Adcom, and others) or online (Outlaw) can't expect to sell in the same volume, and so the licensing cost has a much greater impact on the list price of a certified product. The result is that you have some products that are designed to come with heftier price tags to begin with (Anthem's processors, Parasound and Halo processors, Lexicon) incorporating it into the price and other products that elect to omit THX.

The reason that many folks in this forum (and other online forums) tend not to get particularly worked up about the omission of THX is that we are doing a bit of cost/benefit analysis. Can we find products designed to a high standard such as THX describes without relying on the familiar THX logo to do the looking for us? Yes, we feel that we can. Do we give up the THX processing modes that would be included on a processor or receiver sporting that logo? Obviously so, although that only applies to receivers or processors - THX certified amps or DVD players don't offer anything more than the quality assurance aspects of THX. Are those processing modes worth the extra money when we still have tools such as Dolby EX (which THX EX is a close cousin of), DTS ES, or Pro Logic IIx to make use of? That's a personal choice, but many of us (including myself) don't feel that we are losing anything by sacrificing the THX modes.